Episode 31
Not-So-Mini-Episode About Marriage
In this episode of Sharing the Mddl, I celebrate my 7th wedding anniversary by delving into the concept of the seven-year itch in marriage and exploring how it relates to the messy middle of marriage in the Essay from the Mddl. I share my own experience of marriage, my family's history of long-lasting marriages, and how divorce is not necessarily a failure. Later, my husband Joe joins me for advice from the middle and we discuss what makes our marriage successful thus far and provide advice on how to keep a marriage strong. We talk about the importance of having a sense of humor, being honest with oneself, and understanding one's own needs and wants before communicating them to a partner. We emphasize that marriage is a personal thing and what works for one couple may not work for another. We caution against influencers and self-help gurus who tout their marriages, as their marriages may end up being terrible. We also agree that core values such as political beliefs, societal issues, and parenting styles should be in sync. We acknowledge that it's okay to have different opinions and values on some things, as long as they communicate effectively and come to a compromise. Finally in Lacey Loves, Joe and I also share our current favorites, from a show on Amazon Prime to kitchen gloves for handling meat in the kitchen. The podcast episode concludes with me announcing that the rest of our conversation will be saved for a mini-episode next week, indicating that the topic of marriage will continue to be explored.
Essay From The Mddl
Lacey Loves Links
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Transcript
Welcome to Sharing the Middle, where recovering perfectionists, overachievers, and anyone in the middle of a struggle come together to learn to embrace the messy middles of life.
Speaker A:I'm Lacey, your friend in the middle and guide whose claim to fame this week is feeding my dog two mornings in a row.
Speaker A:Usually my husband has to do this because mornings are very hard time for me, even though I used to love mornings.
Speaker A:But but this week mornings are back and I've been able to do it two days in a row.
Speaker A:Yes, today's mini episode.
Speaker A:Is it really?
Speaker A:It's a not so mini episode because I had my husband Joe join me for the Advice from the Middle and Lacey love sections and we got chatting about marriage and our thoughts on advice on marriage and what makes our marriage successful.
Speaker A:So you do start off with an essay from the Middle from me and then it's a long laced Dan Jo show, but I think there's some good snippets in there and I can't wait to hear what you think.
Speaker A:Let's jump right in.
Speaker A:An Essay from the Middle of Marriage this week marks my seventh wedding anniversary, which naturally makes me think about marriage.
Speaker A:I share some things on here.
Speaker A:The inner workings of my marriage are something that I haven't shared much about because that wouldn't be fair.
Speaker A:My marriage isn't just mine, it's also my husband's.
Speaker A:To respect his experience, privacy and story, I will talk about marriage generally and solely from my point of view.
Speaker A:Why write about it at all?
Speaker A:Well, being in Year seven or getting to Year seven made me think of the seven Year Itch and how this marker could be seen as the middle of marriage.
Speaker A:I had to explore it further, as any good friend in the middle would do.
Speaker A:Seven Year Itch in popular culture, the seven Year Itch is the movie that has the iconic Marilyn Monroe sewer grate moment.
Speaker A:At some point in my late teens or early twenties, I did try to watch this movie because it made me feel cultured.
Speaker A:I don't know, but couldn't get through much of it.
Speaker A:I never could be the cool girl who watched old movies like I thought I wanted to be.
Speaker A:That being said, it made enough of an impact for me to remember that the seventh year of marriage is when satisfaction greatly declines.
Speaker A:I did some very serious research and found that the seven Year Itch is a popular belief sometimes quoted as having psychological backing, that happiness in a marriage or long term romantic relationship declines after or around seven years.
Speaker A:From Wikipedia if the phrase sometimes quoted as having a psychological backing doesn't make you believe in it.
Speaker A:I don't know what will.
Speaker A:In all seriousness, take a look at the article because it does talk about marriage satisfaction and divorce rates, which I found very interesting.
Speaker A: ze that the movie was made in: Speaker A:Or not, I don't know and I don't care because obviously this concept is crap.
Speaker A:Look, my marriage isn't perfect, but I'm feeling pretty secure in it and I don't have any actual concerns about hitting a seven year itch.
Speaker A:It is an interesting thing to think about though.
Speaker A:When you sign up for marriage, most people go into it with the intention for life.
Speaker A:My family has a history of long lasting marriages.
Speaker A:My grandparents were married for 63 years and my parents are going on their 43rd this year.
Speaker A:If I go by these examples in my life, seven years is nothing.
Speaker A:I do think that this seven year itch might mark the true middle of marriage.
Speaker A:Certainly no longer newlyweds or in the early years of your marriage.
Speaker A:Marriage could definitely feel like a never ending middle.
Speaker A:There's no expected end.
Speaker A:As I write this, I realize that while divorce can be devastating, it's not a failure.
Speaker A:It's simply the end to a middle that didn't need to continue.
Speaker A:It could end up being a much needed end.
Speaker A:Marriage is deeply personal.
Speaker A:I was scared to write those last two sentences.
Speaker A:We all have our own individual beliefs about marriage and what it should look like, the rules surrounding it, all of that.
Speaker A:I would never want someone who has gone through a divorce to think that I was placing any kind of judgment on them, whether positive or negative.
Speaker A:In the same way, when someone declares that they don't want to get married, I don't have an opinion.
Speaker A:Marriage is not something to be compared.
Speaker A:I've learned it's kind of like my relationship with clothing.
Speaker A:The way something fits on me is going to be way different than how it fits on someone else.
Speaker A:So we can make our own choices about what fits.
Speaker A:I can admire someone else's.
Speaker A:I can see something, work for them and not for me, and opt out of trends or advice that doesn't serve me.
Speaker A:At the end of the day, I see my marriage as sacred.
Speaker A:It's not sacred because of any religious beliefs or because it's perfect.
Speaker A:It's sacred because it's mine.
Speaker A:Marriage is communication.
Speaker A:The one piece of advice or consideration I will leave you with is that marriage is built through communication.
Speaker A:Whether you like it or not, you are always communicating and creating meaning together.
Speaker A:Sometimes, especially in a marriage, the choice to not communicate is communicating meaning anyway.
Speaker A:Consider the meaning you're creating together and continue to work to make sure the meaning is truly something shared and that you want.
Speaker A:I am proud of the meaning that we've created over the past seven years.
Speaker A:Welcome to our advice from the Middle segment.
Speaker A:We're going to run things a little bit differently today.
Speaker A:I don't have a specific letter, but since this already kind of had a theme of marriage, I thought it could be interesting for Joe and I to have a conversation about what marriage advice we would give.
Speaker A:So welcome back to the podcast, Joe.
Speaker B:I've been advised by my attorney that I should not speak because it can and will be used against me and in the podcast, in the podcast and.
Speaker B:Or the marriage court of law.
Speaker A:I mean, you can edit the episode if you really want.
Speaker B:That's true.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:But you know that if I edit it, I'm gonna leave stuff like this in specifically on purpose.
Speaker A:I know we both have that stupid sense of humor and maybe that's our first marriage.
Speaker A:Tip.
Speaker A:Have the same stupid sense of humor as your partner.
Speaker B:I mean, I guess it's nice to say, find someone that has that already, but what if they don't?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I think the first thing that I would say, and I say this at the end of my piece that I wrote, is that marriage is a very personal thing and that what you need from a marriage or how your own marriage runs is very subjective to your personal likes, dislikes, wants, needs.
Speaker A:So, I mean, when Alex was on the podcast, she talked about how, like, I see you as my best friend, but Lee isn't necessarily her best friend.
Speaker A:And so I think anyone can come into it with a different viewpoint.
Speaker A:I do think our sense of humor has made our marriage more of a success.
Speaker A:And maybe I need to preface this of, like, I don't want anyone to think we have a perfect marriage because we certainly have our struggles and our challenges and there's been a long history of influencers and self help gurus touting their marriages and giving marriage advice.
Speaker A:And then their marriages end and you find out they were terrible and all this stuff.
Speaker A:And I don't want this to be.
Speaker B:That anyone who says they have a perfect marriage is lying and hiding something.
Speaker B:Or a lot of things.
Speaker B:Yeah, probably a lot of things.
Speaker A:Probably a lot of things.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's the people who are willing to admit that their marriages aren't the best, who probably better off, especially because a certain level of honesty is very much required, even if that's just honesty with yourself.
Speaker A:I mean, yes, honesty with yourself, but you do need to have some level of honesty with your partner.
Speaker B:Well, yes, but you need to be honest with yourself first of all, in what your needs and wants are.
Speaker A:That's true.
Speaker B:Because if you don't figure it out for yourself, if you don't take the time to truly listen to what you want and need, then you'll just end up resentful of your partner when they don't give you what you haven't even figured out for yourself yet.
Speaker B:And that all falls back into what, to me, is a.
Speaker B:A very large point.
Speaker B:But I don't want to quite get there yet, so save it.
Speaker A:Do you have, like, points in your head that you're counting down?
Speaker B:Just one, but you already know it.
Speaker B:Nothing special.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Well, I will say, and of course, anything that you don't want to share.
Speaker A:It took us a long time to get to being married because you are a person who likes to have all of your facts and all of your information laid out, and it takes you a little bit longer to make a decision.
Speaker A:But I knew once you asked me to marry you, I was like, oh, this is it, because you made your mind up, you did your due diligence, and you picked me.
Speaker A:And so let's do this.
Speaker A:We're in this.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Are you saying that you don't think through decisions before you make them and you just jump into things?
Speaker A:No, I am saying that I am a bit of a faster decision maker than you.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:And by the way, that okay was a mild judgment in that I make decisions too fast.
Speaker B:It was not a mild judgment.
Speaker B:It was a very strong judgment.
Speaker B:There's nothing mild about it.
Speaker A:Is the probably right amount between my too short and your too long?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, yes.
Speaker B:Somewhere in between is probably the actual correct, you know, place to be.
Speaker A:But I will say, though, for me, I was like, boom.
Speaker A:I. I know that Joe is certain.
Speaker A:He's made the decision.
Speaker A:It's happening.
Speaker A:We're going.
Speaker A:So I do think that has a level of certainty maybe that other people don't have in their marriage.
Speaker A:When I think about our wedding day, I was not nervous at all.
Speaker A:I was like, yeah, I'm marrying my best friend.
Speaker A:I was nervous about details going wrong and the things that we weren't a part of and couldn't control.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker B:I was nervous about the cake not being delicious, which it was.
Speaker B:So it was an unfortunate nervousness.
Speaker B:And that's pretty much it.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker B:I wasn't nervous about any of the stupid songs that I hate because DJ JD had her back.
Speaker B:The marriage stuff I wasn't worried about.
Speaker B:I mean, like you said, I'd already made the decision, so there was nothing else to think about.
Speaker B:I knew what I wanted.
Speaker A:I think that attitude of focusing in on what is important has been something that has helped us in our marriage.
Speaker A:I will say we don't always agree on what is important.
Speaker A:Generally, in most ways we do, though.
Speaker B:I mean, it depends on what you're talking about when you say what's important.
Speaker B:Like, if you're referring to just the wedding.
Speaker B:Yes, of course.
Speaker B:We made sure that the wedding was what we wanted.
Speaker B:It was about us.
Speaker B:It wasn't about anyone else.
Speaker B:There were songs that we said no to.
Speaker B:There were Love Shack.
Speaker B:Joe didn't want Love Shack very much.
Speaker B:No wedding activities that we didn't want.
Speaker B:We didn't want people clinking their glasses throughout the night, forcing us to kiss, which is just awful.
Speaker B:We didn't want the stupid garter belt situation because it's just gross and there's something so creepy about it.
Speaker B:You know, things like that we just said no to.
Speaker B:We made it about what we want, not what we're supposed to do, but what we wanted that would make us feel special, which, I don't know, it really helped.
Speaker B:I think that also helped with the nervousness, too.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Not that there was any, but I guess it helped us to not be nervous at all.
Speaker B:Because everything we did was for us, it wasn't for anyone else.
Speaker A:That's true.
Speaker B:So we.
Speaker B:We picked what was important for us for our wedding.
Speaker B:That was a pretty easy compromise because we both wanted more or less the same thing.
Speaker B:What's important is.
Speaker B:Also.
Speaker B:Can be very different when it comes to values.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I think one of the things that.
Speaker B:Before we got married, we were very sure of this because we.
Speaker B:We took our time getting there.
Speaker B:Not as long as some people, though.
Speaker B:It really wasn't that long of an amount of time.
Speaker A:But I mean, it was six years.
Speaker A:Like, I mean, that's.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:But I'd asked you to marry me before we got to six years, so it was.
Speaker B:It was five.
Speaker B:It was five.
Speaker B:That is not that long of a period of time.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I know plenty of people who were married or dating for longer than five years who were no longer together.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Not that.
Speaker B:That's neither here nor there.
Speaker B:We discussed what was important to each of us, and turns out we both have the same values.
Speaker B:And I think that if in discussing what is important for both parties, if you can't come to some sort of agreement, it may not work out, but it depends on what it is.
Speaker B:Some items are small, some items are big, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you get to decide what's small and big.
Speaker A:That's part of the.
Speaker A:Part of the process.
Speaker A:I know you and I have very similar views about the world and our place in it and how we wanted to raise our children and that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:Now, when it gets into the nitty gritty of parenting, all bets are off.
Speaker A:But on the big stuff of parenting.
Speaker B:Yeah, but that's.
Speaker B:First of all, if we were perfectly in sync on everything, that would be boring.
Speaker A:It would be boring.
Speaker B:And our children would also be boring.
Speaker A:And our children are not boring.
Speaker B:Children are very not boring.
Speaker A:They're pretty cool.
Speaker B:They do all right.
Speaker A:But I think it kind of goes back to what I was saying.
Speaker A:You and I, a sense of humor is a really big deal for us.
Speaker A:We both have that as a high value in our life of laughter and not taking everything too seriously.
Speaker A:I couldn't imagine being with someone who takes things so seriously.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:For a second I thought you were going to really go straight man and be like, well, what do you mean?
Speaker B:That would be awful.
Speaker B:Our core values, what's important to us is in sync.
Speaker B:We both feel the same way about political issues.
Speaker B:We both feel the same way about societal issues.
Speaker B:We both feel the same way about the larger overall parenting issues.
Speaker B:We are somewhat in line on money issues.
Speaker B:And I think if we weren't, that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.
Speaker B:But you have to decide what are the things that are important to you and make sure that they're also important to your partner in some way.
Speaker B:If I feel very strongly about women's issues or other aspects of society and my partner doesn't agree with me, that's not to say you can't have a relationship with that person.
Speaker B:Certainly it's not to say you can't have a long term relationship with that person.
Speaker B:But you have to decide how important that is to you.
Speaker B:If women's rights are the most important thing to you, if your partner's not in sync, that's not something you're necessarily just going to get over if it's one of your top values.
Speaker B:Now, if that's low on your list of values, that's probably something you can get over.
Speaker A:And I would also say if those things are very different and they are important, you got to have some real good communication tools to get over that aren't on the same page on those things.
Speaker A:You got to figure out how to bridge that gap real good.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Any other marriage thoughts, old broseph?
Speaker B:Plenty.
Speaker B:We've only discussed one single point so far.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker B:Are you trying to wrap it up?
Speaker A:No, just technically, it's a mini episode and we're at almost 20 minutes.
Speaker B:I mean, first of all, half of this is gonna be cut out.
Speaker B:It's probably me going into the microphone anyway, so that's all gonna disappear.
Speaker B:Except for what just happened.
Speaker B:Because I can almost guarantee, even if I'm the one editing, that's probably still gonna be left in there just because it's super awkward.
Speaker B:And, you know.
Speaker A:Real quick, it's editing, Lacey.
Speaker A:And as I was editing, I realized, you know, this is a really great stopping point that I actually am gonna save the second half of Joe and I's conversation for the mini episode next week.
Speaker A:So come back next week for Joe and I to finish up our conversation about marriage and marriage advice, and we'll just jump right into Lacey Loves.
Speaker A:Now.
Speaker B:Why are we pausing again?
Speaker A:I hate you.
Speaker A:So our final segment is Lacey Loves, where I talk about things that I love this week and really just with kind of thoughts and with my mind.
Speaker A:And I'm gonna start with one of the most delightful shows that I've watched in a long time called Jury Duty.
Speaker A:It is on Amazon's Freevy channel.
Speaker A:Like, I don't know what the right terminology is, but it's their free streaming.
Speaker A:I would have thought I would have hated it.
Speaker A:I mean, as a matter of fact, in the beginning, Jo was like, I don't understand how you like this because it could come off, like, punked, like, very mean.
Speaker A:I don't like pranks.
Speaker A:I think often pranks are mean.
Speaker A:But so the way this show is is it's all actors who are doing a fake trial, and then there's one guy who doesn't know that it's fake, and he is there participating in a documentary about Jury Duty.
Speaker A:Again, you would think, you would think that it is mean spirited, but they either picked just the right person or they did such a good job of setting it up for him to be the hero.
Speaker A:And does this man step up to make it lovely?
Speaker A:His name's Ronald, which makes it so much better.
Speaker B:It does actually make it better.
Speaker B:Whose name is Ronald?
Speaker A:He is, but I love that he's Ronald and He's like a 29 year old white dude who I would have gone to high school with like.
Speaker A:Anyway.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But yeah, he.
Speaker A:He is with a cast of interesting characters a la almost like the officer Parks and Rec.
Speaker A:There's even James Marsden acting like James Marsden the actor.
Speaker A:And it's funny.
Speaker A:There's some very outlandish parts.
Speaker A:But this man.
Speaker A:And they become this little community and this man really starts to love them and he wants to help them and connect with them.
Speaker A:And it is lovely.
Speaker A:It is lovely.
Speaker A:I watched it all myself.
Speaker A:I made Joe watch it.
Speaker A:I think you have two more episodes left.
Speaker B:I don't know how many are left.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think he still has two more episodes left.
Speaker A:Excited.
Speaker A:Because the final episode they do tell him.
Speaker A:So you get to kind of see the behind the scenes.
Speaker A:And I. I love some process and that gives you some insight in the process.
Speaker A:The other thing that I.
Speaker A:Well, Jo, do you have any jury duty thoughts before I go on since I've made you watch it?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:I feel like you.
Speaker B:You covered it pretty well.
Speaker A:Have I made jokes about James Marsden?
Speaker A:Yeah, because like, people don't know that he's James Marsden.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's funny.
Speaker A:Anywho.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:You were gonna say something?
Speaker B:No, you'd have to watch the show to get it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:The other thing that I love is kind of a preemptive love.
Speaker A:So I apologize.
Speaker A:So on TikTok multiple times now, I've seen people do this hack where they take a vegetable tray and they put it together and put in their fridge so that it's an easy access point to have vegetables as a snack throughout the week.
Speaker A:And there is something about it just being there in the tray with a dip in the middle that I was like, oh my gosh.
Speaker A:Yeah, I would totally reach for that.
Speaker A:Joe's.
Speaker A:Are you not smiling at me?
Speaker B:I mean, I am, but you're absolutely correct.
Speaker A:It just makes it so much more accessible.
Speaker A:So got the vegetable tray today.
Speaker A:We're going to be putting in an order for groceries probably tomorrow.
Speaker A:Next week I'll update you on how the veggie tray goes.
Speaker A:But I am weirdly excited about making a veggie tray to keep in the refrigerator to be able to grab snacks.
Speaker A:I was also thinking that I do think it would also be good for the kit for us for dinners for the kids to just have those cut up vegetables on hand as well.
Speaker A:Any thoughts?
Speaker A:I mean, that was me to you.
Speaker B:They get veggies often.
Speaker A:I know they do, but I'm just saying that's another option.
Speaker B:I mean, in terms of convenience, it'll be nice.
Speaker A:Yes, that's what I'm saying thank you for that validation.
Speaker A:I did link the veggie tray that I got from Amazon because if you buy something from it I get like 35 cents and I will take that 35 cents.
Speaker A:Heck yeah.
Speaker A:Is there anything that you've loved particularly this week, Jo?
Speaker A:Anything that could have an Amazon link?
Speaker A:We could get 35 cents if somebody wants to buy it.
Speaker B:I got kitchen gloves that I'm very excited to use so that I can handle meat without constantly washing my hands or getting ground beef fat soaked into my skin.
Speaker B:So I'm very much looking forward to being able to make stuff in the kitchen without constantly having to wash my hands and go through that whole mess.
Speaker B:So yes, kitchen gloves.
Speaker A:Kitchen gloves.
Speaker A:There it is.
Speaker A:All right, thanks for joining me today, Joe.
Speaker B:It's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker A:You are by popular demand I've had people request bring back Joe.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker A:One person, one vocal person who has brought it up twice now.
Speaker B:Only one person counts as people but.
Speaker A:But I appreciate if it's more than one conversation.
Speaker A:I think.
Speaker A:I think that's a vocal vocal enough.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:Thank you so much for joining me in the Middle today.
Speaker A:I genuinely have no idea what this episode is going to end up looking like, so cue the music as usual.
Speaker A:Thank you for sharing the Middle with me today.
Speaker A:Remember to check out my writings@theMiddle.com that's themddl.com while you're there.
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Speaker A:Thanks so much to Lemon Music Studio for our theme music.
Speaker A:It is literally called Sunshine and that is certainly how it feels to me.
Speaker A:Can't wait to see you in the middle again.
